Hooplah,

Beers sound good to me, the sooner the better.

Speedjive,

Ian is entitled to His opinion just like you are, but Churchill was a bastard, you could check out his record in the first world war or maybe note who was chancellor in Britains only General strike and other things. He also allowed the two men who were the real winners of the Battle of Britian to be sacked after the Battle, do you know who these two men were? And they were also not at the Victory celebrations. If Ian wants to give me his "wrath" fine, he will get mine as well (on churchill). If Churchill was such a great man why did the British people kick him out of office before the war ended? As for the you wouldn't be here quote if it wasn't for Churchill,how is this? What he did to the French in the Second world war he should have been jailed for. People who worked with him during the war considered him a lunatic, why did he waste so much time in Africa when that could been sorted out years before? Or maybe how he got it badly wrong in Norway. The fact is, the Russians and the Americans were the biggest players in the war, not Britain and certainly not Churchill. Btw, that is not meant to be offensive to the British troops who fought, am just telling it like it was.

If it wasn't for Churchill there'd have been no war for the Russians and Americans to get into. You need to check your dates here, herr celtic.

We'd have been part of greater Germany and the Russians would have been crushed because they hadn't got their act together by then (that's why Stalin signed a pact with Hitler, which Hitler later broke - Britain's resistance gave Stalin the time he needed). And the Americans weren't even interested at that time.

Churchill got a few things wrong but he got the main things right at the right time. And all politicans are bastards - goes without saying.
Mick

Why was he replaced at the first opportunity after the war in Europe had ended? Generally, people who are great at managing a war tend not to be very good at managing the peace afterward. Despite the fact that you consider them blinkered sheep, even the voters recognized that a great man may not necessarily be great at everything.

Justin
.

After the war, the British people and returning soldiers wanted to build a better future following the huge sacrifice in the war against fascism. They wanted to get rid of the extremes of abject poverty and conspicuous affluence of the ruling class and aristocracy, of which Churchill was a part. Everyone recognised that he had served well as a war leader, but after the war, as a Tory, he was a part of the problem in rebuilding the country, creating opportunities and creating a more fair, just and meritocratic society. Alas, our selfish generation is betraying that legacy.

Mick,

At the start of World war 2 Russia and Germany were allies yet when Germany invaded Poland with Russia, why did Britain not declare war on Russia too? Germany never wanted to invade Britain prior to 1939 and even after,Hitler even ordered stopping the Killing of the British at Dunkirk. Hitler never wanted war full stop but he knew it would happen because Germany had been set up to retaliate for what happened to them after world war one. British Prime minister Lloyd George told ministers and others this in 1919, he predicted it would take 20 years and he was spot on. Churchill cared only about himself and the Empire he cared nothing for the lose of life either German or British.

Going by the other posts it would seem only bad Prime Ministers/Presidents get re elected. If the British people wanted to get rid of ruling classes and Aristocracy, then how come they didn't get rid of the King? After all, the British royal family funded Hitler as did the Bank Of England, is it closed? No. Germany did not cause either the first or second world wars, something I would never have said 10 years ago but something I can say now, and not with pride. You could also research the four main players in Parliament who were the real villains in starting world war 1 and Churchill was one of them and they had their plan in swing as early as 1906.

I do agree Churchill left a legacy, and as I have said, it is that of a murdering Bastard.

Russia and Germany were NOT allies. They had a 10 year non-aggression pact which meant Hitler could dip into Poland. Hitler had no intention of keeping the pact and subsequently didn't.

Russia didn't invade Poland so Britain and France (don't forget that bit) didn't declare war on Russia.

"Hitler never wanted war full stop" is the biggest dollop of crap you ever wrote. Have you discussed this with any Poles or Czechs, whose countries he didn't need to invade?

The rest of your post just defies belief to anyone outside a straitjacket. When you read your sources do you look at each word in order or just go for every third or fourth word then put them together like a jigsaw?

I think "Young c/r" should be renamed "Hitler Youth c/r".
Mick

PS. If your stuff was a wind-up, it was a very good one. It worked.

The other posts actually went to great lengths to point out that the needs of a nation change over time, and the qualities that make a prime minister a good match for one time period (wartime, for instance) may not make him a good match for a subsequent time period (postwar rebuilding, for instance).

This was the key point made by those posts, yet your 'summary' of those posts completely ignored it.

Justin
.

Citizens United has changed everything in the US. Now the needs of the people have been supplanted by an immoderate minority by seducing the ignorant with eloquent terms of art.

Removed by me.

Mick,

Your at the wind up, Hitler wanted war did he? If that's so, and he was going to attack us then why did he not have aircraft that could reach us to bomb us? He never got these built until after Britian declared war on Germany which makes sense to me, won't to you, he wasn't prepared for invading us. His problem was Poland, if you really check stuff out like you claim to do you would know this. Germans living on "Polish land" (this land was taken off the Germans as punishment for the first world war) were being beheaded, murdered just for being German. Hitler wrote to the League of Nations 3 times for assistance on the "Polish problem", he was ignored 3 times. Hitler is also said to have written to Roosevelt over a 3 year period for help and there is stuff unreleased from his Diaries which might confirm even more. Churchill was warned about singapore, another disaster,but denied it was his fault. Here is A quote from eminent Historian AJP Taylor "I am sorry to say that the records show his advisors told him,and Churchill pushed their warnings aside", this caused unnecessary deaths.

And another quote from one of his cabinet minsters...

"I feel like a man chained to the chariot of a lunatic!! It is getting beyond my powers to control him" (Brooke)

But here is a nice one from your hero Churchill....

After Hitler came to power, Churchill proclaimed that "if our country were defeated, I hope we should find a champion as indomitable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations."

I could go on but I know am wasting my time, you are not looking at History from both sides. You are making me out some kinda Nazi lover, I have told you before I don't wear any commie/Nazi etc tags.

Do the Germans win the war on the other side of history?

Andy,

They are not even allowed to talk about it. There is a Hate Germany propaganda all through Europe since the Second world war, I used to hate the feckers myself but glad to say I have got over that shit, I don't hate anyone, including Mckenzie, I actually love the guy.

You really can't blame some people - especially Jews - for their feelings toward Germany.

Heil c/r,
You appear to get your history lessons from the joke inside your Christmas crackers.

You are able to write what you want in a reasonably free country because Churchill stood up to Hitler. Dissenting voices in pre-war Germany were dealt with swiftly and effectively, as were other "undesirables" such as Jews, gypsies, gays, Poles, Slavs, disabled people, Communists and some of the clergy. F#ck knows what would have happened to anyone not paying their council tax.

Hitler intended to subjugate Britain either politically or otherwise, much the same as he did with France. Despite a number of British MPs and some of the aristocracy wanting to bend over and take it up the arse, you are reasonably free to whinge about any subject under the sun because Mr Churchill stood up for your ancestors.

If you feel that Britain is such a bad and corrupt place (and some parts of the establishment certainly are) why don't you move to North Korea, China, Zimbabwe, Iran, or any of the dozens of countries with the same attitude to free speech as Herr Hitler had? I await your postcards.

Mick

Andy,

You can also say that about the way the Jews treated Germany, this was the reason Hitler fought back and it was the Jews who claimed war on Germany first. Hitler wanted them out of the country as they were robbing Germany blind, he allowed the Jews to transfer all their money to bank accounts in Israel, something that Britain likes to keep quiet. There is also a coin to commemorate this act and this act was called "the transfer agreement". This act was actually discovered by a Jew who wrote the book on it and lost all his family and close friends as they wanted him to keep his mouth shut, the book is on Amazon.